[Empire Builders] Wolfgang Puck, Failing in Shanghai & Returning

Empire Builders is our now-and-again dive into the lives of people who aren't just hustling – they've already hustled, succeeded, expanded, and leveled up. These are the folks running full-blown Empires, whether their origin story starts in a busted shared office on the Suzhou Creek or on the far side of the world. Most grew their thing out of Shanghai and took it global; some built their empires elsewhere and are only just rolling into town. Either way, we're here for the stories that come after "start-up mode": the wins, the scars, the weird detours, and the view from the top of the mountain.

Spago has finally landed in Shanghai. Does it matter? Yes. Absolutely.

Before we get into our own thoughts about the place, we had the privilege of sitting down with Wolfgang Puck to talk about the debut of his flagship brand in the city. He ends up answering half the questions himself – about the food, the space, the vision – which is fantastic, because it saves time. But what's more fascinating is how he goes a step deeper than he typically does in media interviews, offering a rare look into his past, his missteps in Shanghai, and what it means for him to return to the Pearl of the Orient.

Shanghai and its diners are famously unforgiving toward foreign chefs with big reputations. The only ones who have truly managed to put down roots here are Jean-Georges Vongerichten and Joël Robuchon. Paul Pairet and Stefan Stiller, of course, are titans in their own right, but they didn't arrive with global name recognition – they built their legacies here, and reached the highest level (three Michelin stars) on Shanghai soil.

So what does Spago's arrival actually mean for the city? Real thoughts at the end of this article. Don't skip.

CNS: Even though many in our Western audience already know your name, for our local readers, could you give a little bit of an introduction?

Wolfgang: I'm Wolfgang Puck. We have a restaurant company – I call it a family business because my son is involved, my wife is involved, my brother is involved. We really work as a family, which makes it very nice.

I started originally in Austria. My mother was a chef in a resort hotel. When I was 14, I had a terrible relationship with my stepfather, so I left home. I didn't go to high school or university. I went straight into a three-year apprenticeship at a small hotel – the Hotel Post in Villach.

When I was 17, I was so intrigued by French cooking that I moved to Dijon in Burgundy. That's where I got my first experience cooking with wine, with things like escargot, pâtés and, of course, great wines. Burgundy is still one of my top three favorite wine regions in the world.

I stayed about a year and a half. I was supposed to go back to Austria, but then I discovered there were three-star and two-star restaurants – where I had worked was only one-star. So I wrote to all the famous three-star restaurants. The first one who accepted me was Raymond Thuilier in Baumanière, Provence. When I arrived, it was a small village restaurant, but that's where I found my mentor. Raymond became a real mentor to me – passionate about food and passionate about hospitality.

He had all these famous people coming in: Elizabeth Taylor, Marcello Mastroianni, even Picasso. All the French actors, too – Belmondo, Alain Delon, Catherine Deneuve.

But despite the celebrities, it was all about the food. He had his own farm, fish straight from Marseille, pickers who selected the best fruit and vegetables. They only served what they themselves would eat. That philosophy shaped me.

After that, I worked in Monaco, then in Paris at Maxim's – another three-star restaurant. Eventually I came to America, worked five years at Ma Maison, and in 1982 I opened the first Spago in Hollywood.

In 1983 I opened Chinois in Santa Monica – it was my version of Chinese-style food. I didn't even know how to use a wok at the time. Instead of stir-frying beef, I cooked New York steak and made sauces with onions, scallions, spices, soy sauce – and of course I added butter. People loved it, and the restaurant is still going today.

I always loved Asian food. Back in those days, we went to Hong Kong to buy furniture for the restaurant. Later we opened Spago in Tokyo, then expanded through the late 1980s and early 1990s: San Francisco, Las Vegas – I was actually the first chef to open in Vegas. Now everyone is there.

We also changed the perception of what a chef could be. Spago had the first open kitchen in a Western fine-dining restaurant. Guests could sit at the counter and watch the chefs cook. It changed the whole experience – for guests and for chefs.

We did fusion before fusion had a name. People didn't know what to think. Some Chinese chefs even wrote me angry letters: "Why are you touching our cuisine? You're not Chinese." And I said, "You don't have to be Chinese to cook Chinese food. If you love it and respect it, that's enough."

From there we expanded into airports, catering – we still do the Oscars – and retail products on the Home Shopping Network (HSN). But it was in 2008, that the company truly became international. You remember, in 2008, it was the world financial crisis? We had a real crisis in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and everything, the economy went really bad. So I said to my team, we have to expand internationally, and we have to do it now. So we opened in Singapore and London in the same year. Now we're in Budapest, Dubai, Bahrain, Istanbul and more.

How it all started

CNS: How did you start the place in Beverly Hills? You once told me a story about an investor who decided to go somewhere else.

Wolfgang: That story was before Spago, when I was at Ma Maison. When I first started there, I was 25 or 26. They were very thankful at the time, because they wanted a chef with real training, and I had this in France. I thought it was a cute little French bistro – very charming.

But once I went into the kitchen and really started working, I saw how they were doing things. They had food cooked up in big pots, which they reheated. I went into the store room, and saw that they used potato powder to make mashed potatoes. I thought, Jesus Christ...

At Ma Maison, We had investors like Gene Kelly, and Carroll O'Connor, really good people. Carroll told a friend once, "I invested US$10,000, but don't ask me to go there again please."

The first paycheck I got there bounced. I went to the bank with my check from Ma Maison and they said, "No funds." So I had to buy everything COD.

I remember going to the fish market. There was a restaurant called Scandia, a Scandinavian restaurant that bought tons of cooked lobster. I would buy from them the shells and bodies and make lobster sauce and lobster soup. We didn't have the money for full lobsters, but that's how I started to transform Ma Maison's reputation, we made great flavor – and we became very successful.

Soon we had critics coming in several times a week. Gene Kelly, Jack Lemmon, Joan Collins – they all came. It became the restaurant to dine at.

But the owner still didn't trust me. When he went on vacation, somebody had to sign the checks. He asked the maître d' to sign them, not me – even though 65-70 percent of the sales were food, and I controlled the kitchen. If I'd wanted to, I could have driven it into the ground.

I worked lunch and dinner, six days a week; Sundays we were closed. He still didn't trust me.

So when I found the space that became Spago, I went to him and said, "Let's start a new company – Ma Maison Company. I own 50 percent, you own 50 percent."

I still remember being in his office. He looked at me and said, "I will always own 51 percent."

I looked at him and said, "Yes – and so will I."

Then I said, "Bye-bye," and walked out.

That was the luckiest moment of my life. Because if he had said yes, I would have been stuck. Maybe we would have separated anyhow, but it would have been much messier.

On California cuisine

CNS: So, when you started at Ma Maison, you took the restaurant from using potato powder, to using local, fresh ingredients. Many credit you with popularizing California Cuisine. There might be a good number of readers in Shanghai who might not know what this is. What is "California Cuisine," why is it so special?

Wolfgang: To me, good cuisine is always an expression of the place – the land, the climate, and the people who live there. And California? It has two incredible things about it. A great climate which creates great fruits, vegetables, etc. And second, California it is a melting pot of cultures.

First, as I said, California, It is a great climate to grow fruits, vegetables and everything. I think for chefs in America, for sure, it's the best place to be. There's no better place because there's no snow in the winter, there is no freezing that farmers have to deal with. Sure, you might get great things in Illinois, but produce can't be year round there. Another example, Florida, which is warm and humid, but the food has no flavor, because it's so hot and humid. The tomatoes there may be beautiful looking, but they're like water there, no flavor. Whereas in California because it's dry, it takes them a long time for tomatoes to mature, so their flavors really concentrate.

And second, California Cuisine means using as many local ingredients as possible. And because we have so many cultures – Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Latin communities – I incorporate techniques from everywhere. It reflects who we are in Los Angeles. Today, people might call this "fusion," but back in the 1980s, this culinary term didn't even exist. It was just California Cuisine.

CNS: You mentioned that in the early 1980s the term "fusion food" didn't really exist back then. Yet, at the time you were one of the first restauranteurs to combine flavors from different national cuisines...

Wolfgang: Yes... when I opened Spago in '82, we had tuna sashimi on the menu. Now, I served them a little Western style, but there were no French or Italian restaurants that would serve raw fish back then. None. I made spring rolls... why? Well because I liked spring rolls. I was going to China Town all the time and ordering spring rolls, so I decided to make them in Spago, but my way.

This happened the same way with a lot of dishes. So, I learned how to make Peking duck, because I love duck. Peking duck is my favorite preparation for duck, and I just had to learn how to do it myself. So I remember I used to buy the duck, but I didn't have a compressor to separate the skin from the meat. I went to the gas station to use the compressor, the one that people use for car tires and blew up my duck. And people used to laugh at me and say "what the hell are you doing here with your ducks and the compressor." (Laughs) The food was simple, focused, clean – lots of grilling, like in Southern France. Flavors from herbs, spices, freshness. That's California Cuisine.

Wolfgang's Xintiandi, Disney ventures, and now his re-entrance

CNS: It seems like a lot of the big things that have happened for you – including this project here in Shanghai – came through relationships. You mentioned earlier that a professor from Harvard helped set something up?

Wolfgang: Yes, so many of our expansions have come through our network. People who know us, or who know someone who knows us. We're opportunistic, but in a very simple way: If the situation is right, we do it; if the situation is not right, we don't. A professor I know at Harvard, Anderson, happened to know the person who owns this property here in Shanghai. We got connected, and within a year, we had opened this Spago in Shanghai, which... is very unusual. A normal opening for us might take 18 months to over three years.

I'm not like I used to be, opening just any café. Now we look much more carefully.

Lessons learned on market entry – Xintiandi & Disney

CNS: Many of our readers know you already had a presence here. You have operations at Disney, and your first downtown space was the café concept. When we talked the other night, you explained your strategy – that you learned from that experience and realized you needed to start with a flagship. Tell us about that.

Wolfgang: Exactly. The café at Xintiandi wasn't really what we represent. We had a guy running our airport restaurants and cafés. When he came to Shanghai, I let him open the café. But in hindsight, it wasn't the right approach. The café wasn't the right way to introduce ourselves.

What I learned is, if we go to a new city, people usually want a Spago or a Chinois, something people already associate with us. The café wasn't the right way to introduce ourselves. If someone said, "Come open only a café, not a real restaurant," I'd probably say 'no' now. Unless it's an airport – because at an airport, expectations are different. You're in a hurry, you just want to recognize the name and know you'll get a good pizza, a good Caesar salad, a good roast chicken salad. That's fine for that environment.

And now most importantly for me, the most important thing is that we have talent running things here in Shanghai, that we have people who actually can do what we want to do. We don't try to be this or that. We don't try to do just 20 people for dinner or whatever... we want people to be happy and have a good time. So that's why I'm confident we'll do well here with our executive chef Luke Omarzu, who has been with me for over 10 years already. He was the chef at our Bahrain restaurant, CUT, which was won an award of being one of the world's 50 best restaurants. So Shanghai will definitely make it's own statement with the good team we have.

We'll have great food and hospitality. Sometimes in life you make mistakes, Xintiandi Café was one of them – I've made many. But you learn more from mistakes than from successes.

So I said, okay, I made a mistake. Now we found the perfect place – a beautiful hotel, top floor, great views, great dining room. We'll have great food and hospitality. Sometimes in life you make mistakes – I've made many. You learn more from mistakes than from successes.

But the good thing is, you can change direction. And we did.

CNS: So right now in Shanghai, you only have this restaurant? I thought you still had the airport and Disney.

Wolfgang: We don't have Disney anymore. We have a café that opened in Pudong airport earlier this year, and now Spago Shanghai.

And for me, that's okay. I don't do this for the money. I always tell everybody: My reputation is the most important thing. You cannot buy it, and I won't sell it.

If I wanted to, I could franchise my name everywhere – and I actually did a bit of that 25 years ago. But I was unhappy. I used to go visit those places, open the refrigerators, look at the food and think, What are they doing?

That's the artist in me. We have to do what we love to do.

Wolf's dish recommendations for the uninitiated

CNS: Shanghai's experience with California Cuisine is limited. Back in the day, we had an excellent pair of restaurants by Brad Turley, but once he left, the gap was never filled. For people who might be experiencing California Cuisine for the first time, what are some dishes you'd recommend people try at Spago, perhaps one or two standouts?

Wolfgang: You have to start with the tuna cones – very popular in LA. The cones are made from miso and seasame, then filled with a bit of tobiko, and pickled ginger with a lightly spiced tuna tartare.

Then the smoked salmon pizza. I've had it on the menu for 40 years; I can't take it off. I've tried taking it off the menu, and people would order it anyway, so it's now a permanent item.

It's a pizza baked in the wood oven, topped with dill cream, smoked salmon, caviar and chives. Now there's a story behind this particular pizza. Back in the 1980s when Spago started to become really popular, there was this one evening, where we had practically sold out everything on the menu. And on that particular evening Joan Collins came in to order a salmon brioche. We didn't have the bread! So I went into the kitchen, and improvised with whatever we had left for an entirely different creation. For almost a whole week after that Joan came in every day asking for that salmon dill pizza, and word got around that is just became a fixture.

I know you said two dishes, but... let me say... our lobster risotto is also a popular dish because of how we do it – we cook the lobster at the last second so it stays sweet. And the roasted lamb, is also fantastic. Also the broiled miso marinated cod is an excellent example of California Cuisine. Desserts like the Kaiserschmarrn – a traditional Austrian dish – people say they won't finish it, but they always do. And the chocolate soufflé.

We also have the sizzling whole fish – more Asian-style. Crispy-fried, boneless, with a sweet and sour pineapple glaze on a hot plate. People love it in LA.

On ingredients and markets

CNS: That broiled cod dish had layers of flavor – light French elements, Japanese influence and the pickled ginger, it was clearly Japanese pickled ginger, but it also was very distinct in its punchiness.

Wolfgang: Because we cook everything ourselves. We don't buy prepped ingredients. Even here in Shanghai, we went to the market. The snow peas are better than in California. Beautiful small asparagus. Bamboo shoots. So we buy what's fresh and in season. We don't write a menu months ahead – we cook from the market. And one thing to expect, is that I will be out here in Shanghai more in the future to try out local ingredients.

Each Spago has its own signature local menu items, and we'll be developing that here in Shanghai as well. This time we went to the wet markets. For me, the market is always the heart of a city. When we opened Spago Tokyo, we went to Tsukiji twice a week. I loved the wet markets in Shanghai, and we'll be back on our next trip so we can begin crafting Shanghai specific dishes.

I'd also love to see where the caviar is produced in China next time I come. Many people don't know this, but the caviar here in China is amazing. The pearls are beautiful, they pop in your mouth. Next to Iran – which we can't buy from anymore – the caviar in China is the best caviar I've had in a long time.

Wolfgang and the rule of terror

CNS: Yes... so speaking of your team here. You have American chefs who work in your Singapore and Doha restaurants, I met someone earlier, Andreas I think, who is from your restaurants in Turkey. You have an international team opening Shanghai.

Wolfgang: It's just the beginning. My full team isn't even complete yet. I've brought key players from my restaurants around the world to help support Shanghai's opening, this is how strongly I feel about this place. We still have to get to know each other, to understand how each person works, what motivates them.

And we always keep learning. That's the most important thing.

When I was young, I used to scream in the kitchen. If somebody made a mistake, I'd yell.

Now I say, "Let me show you how I want it." I try to teach in a positive way, so they don't feel bad.

CNS: So not like Gordon Ramsay – not one of those chefs who rules by terror in the kitchen. (Laughs.)

Wolfgang: No, that's not fun. I remember working in a restaurant near Beaune in Burgundy, part of the same family as Baumanière in Provence. I was maybe 22 or 23 and the chef there was crazy. He would scream, throw things. The owners were afraid of him. If they wanted something, they had to write him a note.

I was like that for a while too – because that's how I'd seen it done. In Austria, during my apprenticeship, the chefs would hit us and kick us. Then in France, at Baumanière, there was still this culture of yelling and throwing pans.

But when I moved to Paris, and started working at Maxim's my whole philosophy changed. I remember one day, I yelled at the chef saucier (a chef who makes sauces) one day, and the chef de cuisine said to me, "Do you see a sign over the door that says "SORTIE" (French for exit)? If you don't hear me yelling at you, why are you yelling at others?"

That was a big moment. He said, "You can tell people what you want, that's fine. But don't scream and insult them."

After that, I started to change. It really mattered to me what he said, because when I thought about it, it didn't make me feel good to yell at people. When I yelled, I would go home and replay the whole scene in my head. I wouldn't be able to sleep the whole night.

Why come back to Shanghai?

CNS: Many people come to China, try once, fail, and leave. What made you come back to Shanghai?

Wolfgang: Because I love Chinese cuisine. Food and culture are one for me. And Shanghai has great ingredients. The first attempt wasn't the right one, but now we found the right place and the right team. Our chef and manager understand our philosophy.

Spago Shanghai, they kept the terrace

Spago at Night...

Credit: Jacob Aldaco

The terrace converts into a closed space in the cooler months. It is dim and magnetic. This is the area where propositions, seductive suggestions, intimate banter and eye-gazing takes place. Ask for this section if you want someone's undivided attention.

This part of the restaurant is also unique, in that you have west- and northwest-facing windows. Meaning during the spring and summer months, this will be the perfect place to come a little earlier to enjoy dusk, sunset and Shanghai's twilight. There are precious few vantage points that capture Shanghai's sunsets. You can add Spago to the list.

CNS: Tell us about this new version of Spago – you have some unique features like the open terrace.

Wolfgang: For people who have been to any of our other locations, they might say, this might be the most beautiful locations we've ever had. Maybe only Spago Singapore compares, where we're on top of Marina Bay Sands. Here, we have the restaurant, the bar, and a convertible terrace that overlooks the Bund. It's perfect for lunch or a beautiful evening.

We made the design elegant but not intimidating. When people come here, they shouldn't feel like they need a suit and tie. The lighting feels good. The dining room seats about 60 – almost like a private club. And really, you have two very distinct moods. The main dining room feels like you are dining in and among the coolest people in Shanghai. Whereas the terrace can feel more intimate, romantic.

Spago during the day...

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  Spago during the day is an entirely different vibe. The plant features are highlighted by natural sunlight that streams in from the floor to ceiling windows. The greenery, natural light and marble-gold accents give a "serene garden vibe" with urban sophistication. Not unlike what you'd find in Beverly Hills, minus the floor-to-ceiling windows and view... that's distinctly Shanghai.

  Credit: Dong Jun
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  Credit: Dong Jun
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  Credit: Dong Jun
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  Credit: Dong Jun

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Future plans

CNS: What do you see as the future? Is this just the beginning?

Wolfgang: Exactly – just the beginning. People call it an empire; I say it's a small family business. In China, businesses last five generations. That's what I want – when I'm long gone, Byron's grandchildren will run it.

We won't grow crazily – you can't grow without talent. Maybe two or three restaurants a year, but not 10. In China, probably one a year.

Final thoughts

CNS: We've covered all my questions. Anything you wish I had asked?

Wolfgang: Next time I am in Shanghai, I plan to visit more of the interesting, modern restaurants here next time. I have heard some good things about local chefs here doing incredible things. I also want to see the museums, the history and other things Shanghai has to offer.

Jacob's take:

Despite Shanghai's aversion to giving any international chef a free pass, it's hard to deny that Spago Shanghai is indeed a very beautiful space with more than one personality. Take someone you fancy to the terrace dining area, or impress your boss in the main dining space.

The food:

Given the utter absence of California Cuisine in the city, Spago occupies now a niche with no competitors. Given California's predisposition toward Asian flavor influences, the food will land pretty nicely here in the market. The broiled miso codfish hits home as an exemplar of California Cuisine (and as a personal favorite), but so does the smoked salmon dill pizza, the crab cakes, etc. Is it worth going to for the food? Yes. Is it the type of place I might go back to? Read on...

The damage:

Here is where Spago raises some eye brows. Here is the menu with pricing for your reference.

The pricing mechanic at Spago puts the menu's pricing as overlapping with The Cheesecake Factory's at the top end with Bar Bites ranging from 138 yuan (US$19.5) chickpea hummus with Xinjiang lamb to 288 yuan for the smoke salmon pizza.

Appetizers: 138-318 yuan

Pasta/Risotto: 168-218 yuan

Mains: 278-568 yuan

This means you can stay within Cheese Cake Factory's price range if you want, but even splurging at Spago brings the restaurant below what you'd spend at other fine dining institutions in the city. This makes Spago, curiously competitive on price, given what you get in terms of the food, location, and... the view alone makes this one of the more affordable fine dining options on the Bund.

Overall:

A very nice addition for Shanghai. The different dining area moods make the space versatile for different occasions, the fact that we have a new space with western-facing sunset views is also a major plus, and just for the novelty of what Americans on the West Coast eat, now we have an exemplar in the city to tickle that interest. Definitely one of my top picks for the year, worth checking out.

For Shanghai:

Other than Chef Narisawa, we haven't had a big-name chef come to Shanghai in a while. Things have been heating up for the city this year, with multiple institutions winning awards in the space. And this year the city has been no stranger to big brands entering the market via Shanghai. The world's first "celebrity chef" is now extending his empire to China, and Shanghai is chef Wolfgang Puck's first stop.